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	<title>Comments on: There is no &#8216;fold&#8217; on the web</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.lostremote.com/2007/08/23/there-is-no-fold-on-the-web/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.lostremote.com/2007/08/23/there-is-no-fold-on-the-web/</link>
	<description>Where TV Finds the Future</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 19:02:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Pixels &#38; Fairydust</title>
		<link>http://www.lostremote.com/2007/08/23/there-is-no-fold-on-the-web/#comment-472372</link>
		<dc:creator>Pixels &#38; Fairydust</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Aug 2007 22:53:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lostremote.com/2007/08/23/there-is-no-fold-on-the-web/#comment-472372</guid>
		<description>The funny thing is that as you read this comment, you had to scroll down to get here. Why? If there's interesting content, people will follow it, no matter where it is. That's the plain truth and if folks aren't reading your content, then maybe it's time to look at the quality, rather than the placement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The funny thing is that as you read this comment, you had to scroll down to get here. Why? If there&#8217;s interesting content, people will follow it, no matter where it is. That&#8217;s the plain truth and if folks aren&#8217;t reading your content, then maybe it&#8217;s time to look at the quality, rather than the placement.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Planchet</title>
		<link>http://www.lostremote.com/2007/08/23/there-is-no-fold-on-the-web/#comment-469651</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Planchet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Aug 2007 18:15:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lostremote.com/2007/08/23/there-is-no-fold-on-the-web/#comment-469651</guid>
		<description>I can't tell you how many times a week a department here 'encourages' or asks for a link to be put above the fold. Or, for that matter, how often someone will ask where their link is, then when shown it down the page, asks for it to go up.

Unfortunately, traffic usually jumps on a topic when it moves "up."

I've tried training users to both scroll down and go inside, by keeping content in those spaces for lengths of time, but I've never had the guts to leave them alone in those spots long enough to 'teach' them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t tell you how many times a week a department here &#8216;encourages&#8217; or asks for a link to be put above the fold. Or, for that matter, how often someone will ask where their link is, then when shown it down the page, asks for it to go up.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, traffic usually jumps on a topic when it moves &#8220;up.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve tried training users to both scroll down and go inside, by keeping content in those spaces for lengths of time, but I&#8217;ve never had the guts to leave them alone in those spots long enough to &#8216;teach&#8217; them.</p>
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		<title>By: G</title>
		<link>http://www.lostremote.com/2007/08/23/there-is-no-fold-on-the-web/#comment-466648</link>
		<dc:creator>G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2007 21:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lostremote.com/2007/08/23/there-is-no-fold-on-the-web/#comment-466648</guid>
		<description>Ditto el Guapo. How many departments are in your building? Multiply that number by two and that's how many things you'll be "seriously encouraged" to put above the fold.

I'd offer that many people selling for the Web and similar platforms still don't fully understand the platforms or how people use them. Saying you want it "on the homepage" is quick and easy. Following that up by saying you want it "higher on the homepage" is just as easy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ditto el Guapo. How many departments are in your building? Multiply that number by two and that&#8217;s how many things you&#8217;ll be &#8220;seriously encouraged&#8221; to put above the fold.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d offer that many people selling for the Web and similar platforms still don&#8217;t fully understand the platforms or how people use them. Saying you want it &#8220;on the homepage&#8221; is quick and easy. Following that up by saying you want it &#8220;higher on the homepage&#8221; is just as easy.</p>
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		<title>By: JoeMo</title>
		<link>http://www.lostremote.com/2007/08/23/there-is-no-fold-on-the-web/#comment-466468</link>
		<dc:creator>JoeMo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2007 17:54:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lostremote.com/2007/08/23/there-is-no-fold-on-the-web/#comment-466468</guid>
		<description>LOL... funny thing this observation is coming from AOL... so finally a NORMAL observation after decades of terrible publishing. Truth is everyone working on the UX fields knows tht -- an many other facts. Just look at Amazon people: people scroll if there is meaningful content below the fold, and if a web site would start adding good content and good layout down there, traffic will go, just as people move right down the page on amazon where all the useful info are. Cheers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LOL&#8230; funny thing this observation is coming from AOL&#8230; so finally a NORMAL observation after decades of terrible publishing. Truth is everyone working on the UX fields knows tht &#8212; an many other facts. Just look at Amazon people: people scroll if there is meaningful content below the fold, and if a web site would start adding good content and good layout down there, traffic will go, just as people move right down the page on amazon where all the useful info are. Cheers.</p>
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		<title>By: JoeMo</title>
		<link>http://www.lostremote.com/2007/08/23/there-is-no-fold-on-the-web/#comment-466449</link>
		<dc:creator>JoeMo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2007 17:32:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lostremote.com/2007/08/23/there-is-no-fold-on-the-web/#comment-466449</guid>
		<description>Yeah, but how many of your visitors are running 800x600 these days?  At some point you have to cut loose those dial-up users as its all about percentages.  Too many sites concern themselves with those that fall into the minority, the people on dial-up or small screen resolutions then you have that guy / girl who is running some obscure version of Linux with Lynx (text browser); sure he likes to make a lot of noise but is he / she going to affect your bottom line?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, but how many of your visitors are running 800&#215;600 these days?  At some point you have to cut loose those dial-up users as its all about percentages.  Too many sites concern themselves with those that fall into the minority, the people on dial-up or small screen resolutions then you have that guy / girl who is running some obscure version of Linux with Lynx (text browser); sure he likes to make a lot of noise but is he / she going to affect your bottom line?</p>
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		<title>By: el Guapo</title>
		<link>http://www.lostremote.com/2007/08/23/there-is-no-fold-on-the-web/#comment-466321</link>
		<dc:creator>el Guapo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2007 14:36:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lostremote.com/2007/08/23/there-is-no-fold-on-the-web/#comment-466321</guid>
		<description>Let's face it, the home pages of most news sites are god-awful ugly "Christmas Trees" adorned with ads and links to sponsored features.

When one of Google's creators was asked why other sites like Yahoo did not mimic their successful minimalist design he correctly observed that each department on Yahoo had constituents within the company (department heads, sales execs) who would scream bloody murder if "their" link was removed from the home page.

And trust me, users ARE frustrated. I get calls from people every day who cannot navigate our site (or our competitors) and can't find the content they are looking for through site searches.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s face it, the home pages of most news sites are god-awful ugly &#8220;Christmas Trees&#8221; adorned with ads and links to sponsored features.</p>
<p>When one of Google&#8217;s creators was asked why other sites like Yahoo did not mimic their successful minimalist design he correctly observed that each department on Yahoo had constituents within the company (department heads, sales execs) who would scream bloody murder if &#8220;their&#8221; link was removed from the home page.</p>
<p>And trust me, users ARE frustrated. I get calls from people every day who cannot navigate our site (or our competitors) and can&#8217;t find the content they are looking for through site searches.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.lostremote.com/2007/08/23/there-is-no-fold-on-the-web/#comment-466318</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2007 14:31:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lostremote.com/2007/08/23/there-is-no-fold-on-the-web/#comment-466318</guid>
		<description>Keep in mind that "the fold" is different for each viewer depending on their monitors.  There's a sizable area which could be above on some monitors but below on others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keep in mind that &#8220;the fold&#8221; is different for each viewer depending on their monitors.  There&#8217;s a sizable area which could be above on some monitors but below on others.</p>
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		<title>By: Mr. Semantics</title>
		<link>http://www.lostremote.com/2007/08/23/there-is-no-fold-on-the-web/#comment-466304</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. Semantics</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2007 13:53:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lostremote.com/2007/08/23/there-is-no-fold-on-the-web/#comment-466304</guid>
		<description>I have always preferred "above the scroll".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have always preferred &#8220;above the scroll&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: JoeMo</title>
		<link>http://www.lostremote.com/2007/08/23/there-is-no-fold-on-the-web/#comment-466294</link>
		<dc:creator>JoeMo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2007 13:34:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lostremote.com/2007/08/23/there-is-no-fold-on-the-web/#comment-466294</guid>
		<description>there is no reason to go below "the fold" anyways so stop it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>there is no reason to go below &#8220;the fold&#8221; anyways so stop it!</p>
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		<title>By: Terry Heaton</title>
		<link>http://www.lostremote.com/2007/08/23/there-is-no-fold-on-the-web/#comment-466279</link>
		<dc:creator>Terry Heaton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2007 13:17:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lostremote.com/2007/08/23/there-is-no-fold-on-the-web/#comment-466279</guid>
		<description>The question of "fold" is one of design and assumption. Everybody here is right, but it depends on how you view the purpose of a page in terms of delivering content.

In the traditional newspaper model, for example, above the fold applies, but it doesn't in the tabloid model. But both of these suffer from the reality that everything else is within.

The earliest iterations of the web were all text-based, so we followed the newspaper model. The terms associated with most sites are all print: pages, columns, display ads, above-the-fold, etc. We even follow the print model of everything else being "inside" by creating links off the "front" page.

(We should be developing "channels" anyway)

Blog software, however, takes a different approach, one that assumes every story has equal weight based on the time it is posted. Truly, there is no fold with this type of content presentation, which is why TMZ.com ads deep in the right "column" have such value.

If you look at each of their entry pages, however, those ads don't exist, because people only view the one entry.

In as much as this type of presentation is becoming a web standard, it's important we consider how different it really is. The length of the home page of a blog is determined by the number of entries, and that is preset according to the tastes of the author.

Personally, I spend most of my time with RSS feeds, so I don't give a crap how anybody's home page is designed. But as Brink noted, most people are still browsing. 

Finally, in a browsing world, the ad at the top of the page will always be the most expensive, which is a statement of the real estate when people first arrive on a page.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The question of &#8220;fold&#8221; is one of design and assumption. Everybody here is right, but it depends on how you view the purpose of a page in terms of delivering content.</p>
<p>In the traditional newspaper model, for example, above the fold applies, but it doesn&#8217;t in the tabloid model. But both of these suffer from the reality that everything else is within.</p>
<p>The earliest iterations of the web were all text-based, so we followed the newspaper model. The terms associated with most sites are all print: pages, columns, display ads, above-the-fold, etc. We even follow the print model of everything else being &#8220;inside&#8221; by creating links off the &#8220;front&#8221; page.</p>
<p>(We should be developing &#8220;channels&#8221; anyway)</p>
<p>Blog software, however, takes a different approach, one that assumes every story has equal weight based on the time it is posted. Truly, there is no fold with this type of content presentation, which is why TMZ.com ads deep in the right &#8220;column&#8221; have such value.</p>
<p>If you look at each of their entry pages, however, those ads don&#8217;t exist, because people only view the one entry.</p>
<p>In as much as this type of presentation is becoming a web standard, it&#8217;s important we consider how different it really is. The length of the home page of a blog is determined by the number of entries, and that is preset according to the tastes of the author.</p>
<p>Personally, I spend most of my time with RSS feeds, so I don&#8217;t give a crap how anybody&#8217;s home page is designed. But as Brink noted, most people are still browsing. </p>
<p>Finally, in a browsing world, the ad at the top of the page will always be the most expensive, which is a statement of the real estate when people first arrive on a page.</p>
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		<title>By: Z</title>
		<link>http://www.lostremote.com/2007/08/23/there-is-no-fold-on-the-web/#comment-466262</link>
		<dc:creator>Z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2007 12:58:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lostremote.com/2007/08/23/there-is-no-fold-on-the-web/#comment-466262</guid>
		<description>I love ya, Steve, but I gotta go with Brink and Marc on this one. Whether there is or is not a physical fold, there's certainly a perceptional one among many viewers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love ya, Steve, but I gotta go with Brink and Marc on this one. Whether there is or is not a physical fold, there&#8217;s certainly a perceptional one among many viewers.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Safran</title>
		<link>http://www.lostremote.com/2007/08/23/there-is-no-fold-on-the-web/#comment-466230</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Safran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2007 12:00:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lostremote.com/2007/08/23/there-is-no-fold-on-the-web/#comment-466230</guid>
		<description>Marc: It's not that there isn't a "fold" as such, so much as there isn't a need to put everything ABOVE it. That's where the misconception is. Stations believe they need to cram everything up top, believing people won't scroll.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marc: It&#8217;s not that there isn&#8217;t a &#8220;fold&#8221; as such, so much as there isn&#8217;t a need to put everything ABOVE it. That&#8217;s where the misconception is. Stations believe they need to cram everything up top, believing people won&#8217;t scroll.</p>
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		<title>By: Marc Rullo</title>
		<link>http://www.lostremote.com/2007/08/23/there-is-no-fold-on-the-web/#comment-466211</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc Rullo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2007 11:26:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lostremote.com/2007/08/23/there-is-no-fold-on-the-web/#comment-466211</guid>
		<description>Don't worry people, despite the bold claim this article tries to make, the 'fold' is alive and well on the web. For those of you who might have left it, temporarily misled by this article, welcome back to it. Seriously, the term 'fold' is borrowed from newspaper jargon for what amounts to be the top half of the front page of a folded newspaper. People known where to find things if they choose to look inside be it a magazine, book or website. But there will always be an initial visual presentation limited in dimension and scope. Saying sites don't have a fold is like saying you don't have a face. Retract the headline and save some of your own.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t worry people, despite the bold claim this article tries to make, the &#8216;fold&#8217; is alive and well on the web. For those of you who might have left it, temporarily misled by this article, welcome back to it. Seriously, the term &#8216;fold&#8217; is borrowed from newspaper jargon for what amounts to be the top half of the front page of a folded newspaper. People known where to find things if they choose to look inside be it a magazine, book or website. But there will always be an initial visual presentation limited in dimension and scope. Saying sites don&#8217;t have a fold is like saying you don&#8217;t have a face. Retract the headline and save some of your own.</p>
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		<title>By: Brink</title>
		<link>http://www.lostremote.com/2007/08/23/there-is-no-fold-on-the-web/#comment-466189</link>
		<dc:creator>Brink</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2007 10:43:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lostremote.com/2007/08/23/there-is-no-fold-on-the-web/#comment-466189</guid>
		<description>Based on user input I read daily, there are a great many people out there who do not even REALIZE they can "scroll down" if what they want isn't right on the screen when they arrive. Sounds ridiculous, but it is true. And I have no idea how--except by individual responses--to educate people about this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Based on user input I read daily, there are a great many people out there who do not even REALIZE they can &#8220;scroll down&#8221; if what they want isn&#8217;t right on the screen when they arrive. Sounds ridiculous, but it is true. And I have no idea how&#8211;except by individual responses&#8211;to educate people about this.</p>
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		<title>By: discreet_chaos</title>
		<link>http://www.lostremote.com/2007/08/23/there-is-no-fold-on-the-web/#comment-466014</link>
		<dc:creator>discreet_chaos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2007 07:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lostremote.com/2007/08/23/there-is-no-fold-on-the-web/#comment-466014</guid>
		<description>Whoops - That last line should've read;

People will scroll, if they know there will be content, but that which you put up top is guaranteed to be seen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whoops - That last line should&#8217;ve read;</p>
<p>People will scroll, if they know there will be content, but that which you put up top is guaranteed to be seen.</p>
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