There were some good comments on our first post about MyBallard.com, the online-only neighborhood news effort run by my wife and me. Lost Remote reader Aaron asked the most pointed questions. “It takes more than passion to build a business. It takes a truly sustainable business model,” he wrote. “How much money does the property make? How truly sustainable is that revenue stream or more pointedly, how sustainable would it be for someone other than those who started it?”
Of course, this gets to the heart of the matter, and these are the exact questions that media companies are asking as they evaluate the hyperlocal space. Here in Seattle, WestSeattleBlog.com has a full slate of SMB advertisers. CapitolHillSeattle.com and MyBallard.com are just getting started with unique approaches to advertising. The early indications are extremely positive, but like any newly emerging business model, it’s impossible to know how it will scale. There’s an element of risk, and that’s why most local media companies have remained on the sidelines.
In the meantime, sites like the WestSeattleBlog are developing a strong first-mover advantage by building loyal communities. Aaron argues that “community building done by blogs is easily duplicated,” and while I would agree in the sense of a typical niche blog like Lost Remote, I can’t disagree more when it comes to strong neighborhood news sites. Getting critical mass in these communities is extremely difficult — you can’t simply start a site and link it from SeattleTimes.com and expect a vibrant community to appear out of nowhere. WestSeattleBlog, MyBallard and CapitolHillSeattle have worked long and hard, at the grassroots level, to build our audiences and contributors. We attend neighborhood events, introduce ourselves to anyone we can, hand out postcards, answer nearly every email — a TV ad can’t replicate this, especially when you consider we live here. As WSB’s Tracy Record says, “the community is a partner, not just an audience.”
This makes neighborhood news sites a different animal than your average blog or news site. It creates unique barriers to entry — media companies don’t have the resources to build communities “by hand” across dozens of neighborhoods, and their attempts to automate it are met with limited success. But we’re reaching a critical mass of audience in dense geographic areas. As a result, we see a steady stream of tips, observations and discussion that yield original, exclusive content that’s very difficult to replicate.
Aaron’s next argument is that the publishers of these particular news sites have skills that are atypical and difficult to replicate. In other words, that these sites are anomalies, they prove nothing, and their market value is diminished because if the publishers left, the sites would fail. True, WSB’s Tracy Record has a long background in TV and online news. CapitolHillSeattle’s Justin Carder used to work for MSN. And both my wife and I have a long background in TV and online media. We’re not your average “bloggers.”
But I’ll argue that the value we bring to the table is helping prove the model, not necessarily sustaining it. There are plenty of enterprising journalists out there who could take the reins of MyBallard, with a little training, without missing much of a beat. (By the way, I believe as more journalists leave the traditional news business, more neighborhood news sites will appear.) For us, though, the sales side has yet to be proven. And that brings us back to the original question.
Is there a truly sustainable business model? By building hard-to-replicate communities with exclusive content, I believe we’re well on our way. But only time will tell. We’ll be posting more on Lost Remote as we continue our conversation about neighborhood news. Please keep the comments coming!
No related posts.
TR said in post #15:
“Here’s the only number I bother offering, fwiw, and hate to be coy…”
TR: Um, YOU hate to be coy? Really? Your pretentious modesty is invoked in your every WSB post.
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TR said in post #41:
WRH, please name one story you saw somewhere first that we said “seen here first.â€
TR: An eagle does not feed on flies. However, while I will not fish for you, I will teach you to fish. To begin, check out your March through May posts on the Charlestown Cafe. Also, your coverage on “Man falls in ditch on Fauntleroy” still provides me many laughs. To insult your readers by claiming that you were staying on top of the story and then linking to a PHOTO OF YOUR TELEVISION, an image of a TV newscast helicopter’s aerial view of the accident scene. I guess the helicopter was there before you were by your TV with camera on the ready, to take a picture of them taking a picture of the accident scene.
Steve,
I think there’s a natural resistance to any criticism. No one agrees with everything all the time. In TR’s case she sees that her hard work and dedication have borne fruit and sees little in the way of opposition to her plans. She may be right but is clearly over sensitive to simple analysis. Brink, I can’t pay attention to since he offers nothing substantive. I also looked at the Montclair Times vs Baristanet in Montclair New Jersey. Baristanet deserves its success because the old guard is too hide bound to grasp that people want what they want and not necessarily what you choose to feed them. This is probably based in a misunderstanding of how the internet works and WHAT works on the internet. It also demonstrates pretty clearly that the speed of news matters regardless of its triviality because a reader can just skip over what doesn’t interest them. The blog format, being linear is also naturally suited to mobile devices where web use is growing the fastest.
There is a lot to like about blogs…that’s quite obvious.
But the old media, while in decline, is still making more money. This COULD be due to several reasons.
1. A significant portion of the market reads newspapers, and pays attention to other old media and relatively little attention to the web. Largely skewing to a middle age and older demographic, this social inertia can’t be ignored.
2. The web advertising we see is not as effective as other media…some of this a hangover from the dotcom bust, some of this just in the nature of how the human brain processes information, part of it generational where younger people don’t respond to conventional ad types (including web ads), and some of it an educational process for advertisers.
3. Print presentation, in large color photographs, with coupons, and other long proven ad construction techniques still offers a better, more cost effective way to reach people and motivate them to buy. One look at the Sunday edition of most daily newspapers is powerful evidence that this is still true. Pre-prints, widely distributed, even direct mail in print both offer very powerful tools to drive sales for advertisers.
What has declined since the 1980’s is what is called Run Of Press advertising. This, coupled with the decline in classified advertising have heavily impacted the former “mini-monopoly” that many newspapers enjoyed.
The CPM ratio I’ve mentioned in previous posts has been a serious limiting factor for conventional media to change their procedures. But it would be a serious mistake to think that companies with professional sales staff, professional management, professional graphics people are incapable of change or adaptation. The cost/benefit ratio has simply not been there. It’s still NOT really there but that too is likely to change. In many ways, old media owes bloggers a debt of gratitude for demonstrating what people want and delivering it.
I simply think that in some cases, they will stay largely asleep…but in others the bloggers may have awakened a sleeping giant.
I’m not against what Aaron has said (well, maybe how he said it) — just offering some other factors to consider (that he quickly dismissed). I maintain that those factors are bigger unknowns than Aaron (or I) can grasp. The whole McDonald’s angle is a hoot. I definitely don’t wanna be flipping burgers.
As for you WR Hearst, got an axe to grind or what! What WSB has built is really cool. It should inspire no matter what you ultimately think about the business.
#51 – I asked for a specific post and a specific case of who had it before we did. We broke several stories along the way during the Charlestown Cafe rebuilding by frequently checking with the owner, either by e-mail, by phone, or by dropping in on the cafe, as well as following permit filings. My offer stands if you have any specifics “you said you had X first, but news source Y had X first.”
Re: the ditch rescue, my husband and one of our contributing photojournalists were there in person throughout the incident and I wrote our updates back here, using information from what he called in, and yes, also monitoring TV reports and the scanner. We fully attributed all sources used in the coverage (scanner says, tv station x says, so and so tells us at the scene – the URL for the coverage is linked to my name on this post). Your problem is … ?
Meantime, I think this has threadjacked what Cory started as something intended to be a constructive discussion. Any beef somebody wants to take up with us directly, please e-mail me any time – editor (at) westseattleblog (dot) com.
Justin, My opinions here mirror many others in West Seattle. Trust me. I got ears. WRH
TR: You made my points for me. Thank you. Just because you contacted the owners a bunch of times after the Charlestown fire tells me that you did not “break several stories,” you simply updated an old one, which is, “So when you opening?” IOW, You broke nothing.
My problem with your taking a picture off a TV screen of breaking TV news as reportage is lame as it is not an original window into anything new. Again, these beefs are not just my own. I got eyes and ears in WS.
As for “threadjacking,” I say “VIVA LA BLOG!”
Che’ Guevara Hearst
Actually, I talk to West Seattleites every day, WRH. And while there are some negative opinions of WSB (and TR knows what they are and has heard them from me), none of them share your negative opinion, much less troll a message with innuendo.
It’s an old variation on that old Usenet argument, reducto ad lurkeros, or “the lurkers support me in e-mail.”
dw- Simply because those you speak to every day and those I speak to every day differ does not invalidate my criticism, nor others, of the blog. And TR’s awareness of negative opinions of her blog is certainly no excuse for you to hush criticism here.
Also, I find it ironic that while I am trying to engage in ongoing discussion, dw, Justin, and TR are trying to shut me up. So wouldn’t you folks be the trolls?
I didn’t dismiss your “factors” Justin..I asked how you could justify their suggestion.
What justifies a higher CPM?
You could make the case that a sponsorship of a specific site feature would offer a higher CPM but what kind of feature would that be? I will remind you again that higher CPM’s are usually found on vertical sites that reach a very targeted demographic. So…the RobbReport dot com site I would guess could get away with it…but a local news blog?
Remove the cost of sales? Again…how is that likely to happen? What is there to grasp about your suggestion here? A concept so intellectually advanced it’s beyond most people? Offer something real here Justin…I’m certain the blogging community would love to know how to do this (not to mention the “old media”).
If you read the post from Steve at DaggerPress you can see he’s put 2000 hours into it, has quite a few local contributors and yet hasn’t pulled dime one from his efforts. He may yet but that’s a YEAR of 40 hour work weeks for no pay. Not many people can pull that off.
My point remains unanswered and I will refer you yet again to the name of the thread… Is neighborhood news a sustainable business? I’ll modify my answer a bit in deference to TR and say NO…not usually, but in the case where the owners work incredibly hard for a long time (three years) and don’t mind low pay for even longer it’s possible to create a base income for two people. But is it enough to build a sustainable business…one that could be sold or somehow grown beyond a certain level? Not very likely. The fundamentals for that are just not there.
If I’ve offended you Justin, I apologize, that’s not my intent. So if there’s something about the “way that I said it” you took issue with then I think you may have misunderstood. I’m merely looking at the facts as I see them…and TR is correct…only time will tell.
You know, threads like these really make me wonder if I should continue this “series” of blog posts examining neighborhood news in Seattle. This is EXACTLY what the industry needs to be talking about, but here’s the problem:
1. This blog has somehow deteriorated, generally speaking, to people dissing just about every new idea. That wasn’t how it was in the old days. Granted, we’re in different times, with a different economic outlook, and people tend to be a little more direct these days. But our readers have stopped telling us their great ideas and new beta product launches because they’re afraid the comments will tear them apart. And that sucks. Maybe I should switch back to an email newsletter, where Lost Remote began 9 years ago.
2. Aaron, you make terrific points, but you make them incessantly. If you say over and over again that we will fail, don’t be surprised when we give you a passionate and sometimes pissy answer. We don’t have all the answers, but at least we’re trying… without much sleep, I might add. You should respect that and change your tone.
3. W.R. Hearst, personal attacks? You may say “VIVA LA BLOG,” but it’s my blog. So back off or you’ll be banned.
Can we have an intelligent, non-confrontational discourse here?
Cory,
I beg to differ only in your characterization of my posts.
I never said “you will fail” if you read what I wrote. I said that making a sustainable business of a neighborhood news blog (and you began this discussion) is possible only through the right set of circumstances. Relative geographic isolation (West Seattle has that), enormous dedication (TR clearly has that), and little or no competition (and baristanet and WSB both enjoy that for the moment). DaggerPress points out that they make no money. Your own blog MyBallard makes no money.
Tone is almost impossible to convey in text only but I’m not an emoticon person so what you impute is likely based on your own sense of facing a daunting challenge.
If it seems like I am making points “incessantly” it’s because the counter arguments made thus far lack intellectual rigor and substance. I’d love to see ten examples of highly successful neighborhood news blogs that are supporting 4 to 10 people with healthy incomes. Even 3 to 5 people would be fairly impressive. But no one has shown me that yet. So.. what should I conclude? That it’s still early in the game? That newspapers and their websites will collapse or simply give up? That radio stations, coupon books, direct mail offers, and many other drains from local advertiser budgets will disappear?
You are asking for respect for you efforts. That I grant you.
Local news bloggers work hard and I’ve said so “incessantly”
I see that you are “Trying” but this presumes that every effot you make is purely altruistic and thereby worthy of being honored. The truth is you would love to make a profit AND be of service. The pragmatic always becomes important in the end.
Cory, there are millions of people in this world, all working very hard. All worthy of respect. I cannot see anywhere in my “tone” that I have been disrepectful unless I or my points were denigrated out of hand FIRST.
Being pissy in response to a cogent argument does not garner MY respect nor should it.
Show me in any my posts where my tone was wrong when I was not attacked first and I will apologize. I’ve tried to stay on topic. That’s the value of this kind of communication.
I would say that I’ve demonstrated a certain level of knowledge and understanding of the issues confronting local news blogs but NO ONE has asked what I think they might do to succeed or how I think they fit into the media landscape.
I prefer pithy to pissy anytime.
“Maybe I should switch back to an email newsletter, where Lost Remote began 9 years ago.”
Cory, passive-aggressive behavior doesn’t suit you well at all.
“I’d love to see ten examples of highly successful neighborhood news blogs that are supporting 4 to 10 people with healthy incomes. Even 3 to 5 people would be fairly impressive. But no one has shown me that yet. So.. what should I conclude? That it’s still early in the game? ”
Yes. Is that too difficult?
Everything starts at the bottom. If you insist that every endeavor be instantly profitable, then you’d eliminate a good many innovative companies throughout history.
Cory said: W.R. Hearst, personal attacks? You may say “VIVA LA BLOG,†but it’s my blog. So back off or you’ll be banned.
Can we have an intelligent, non-confrontational discourse here?
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We were, that is, until you said it’s your blog.
cory, i have to say i stopped reading the comments at about #40. i only clicked back on because i saw “64 comments” and knew either the board was spammed or a food fight broke out.
let these fools go at it… it’s evident they have a passion for it and you are providing a platform for democracy.
look! it even raised wr hearst from the dead!!!
democracy is a very messy business.
viva la democracy!
Contrarian,
OK…It’s early in the game and the factors that make a business sustainable (rising rates, stable business climate, less competition, low labor costs) are all in place.
How’s that again?
If had commented in only totally supportive ways that “The exception disproves the rule”! or that “Absolutely they are sustainable. These early first movers are proving that with enough grit and dedication anything is possible!” would everyone agree? Or would it only please those who have a vested interest in their success?
What do you think would happen if all the local newspapers (especially in Seattle) were owned by one dominant player who had tens of millions of dollars (anyone heard of David Black?) and chose to get into hyper local web news…paying people long enough and selling online rates low enough that he simply freezes other players out?
Would the mom and pop operations be able to continue in that climate?
The entire point of what I’ve been saying here is that a business model has to be robust enough to withstand these
kind of challenges. From what I can tell about what online ads produce and what small operations can generate the model does not look sustainable. I could very well be wrong of course. But I haven’t heard a truly cogent argument yet.
The odds are decidedly stacked against success for the vast majority of neighborhood news blogs unless they pursue them solely as a personal passion and draw their paycheck from another source.
It’s amazing how many people are making Cory’s argument for him.
I assure you there’s nothing passive aggressive about it. LR was a place for respectful conversation and ways for early webbies to support each other with new ideas. Now it sadly reflects most Web discourse: self-satisfied bickering.
I’ve loved the wealth of ideas I’ve seen here over the years, but it’s enough already for me, too. If we’re really still at a point where every new idea is shot down because it’s not exactly like an old idea (which were new at one point), then LR doesn’t really have a reason to be. Cory works too hard to put out flame bait.
The ideas behind LR will not go away. Sorry. People’s ability to smugly shoot them down may. But we have to find a way to return to civility and positive reinforcement. Kindness don’t cost nothin’.
And yes – that’s been my policy since long before I started consulting.
I suggest that the wonderful thing about the Web is that, if you have passionate ideas, you can have your own blog. If you find LR too high-minded and idealistic, absolutely let it be heard. But the disrespectful hijacking that’s going on here simply reflects the worst in our business. TV news has reached a desperately bad point because of arguing. We can do better. Don’t you want to?
Really – angry notes on a posting when someone just wants to opt out of the Yellow Pages? Vitriolic stabs when someone shares their attempt at local blogging? Automatic putdowns of an unprecedented attempt to put every local high school game onto every laptop?
Let it fly. I assume there are plenty of reasons I’m wrong. I won’t be checking back, but if it makes you feel good, go nuts. Just don’t for a second think Cory’s kidding.
“Automatic putdowns of an unprecedented attempt to put every local high school game onto every laptop? ”
How do you define “automatic”? What if I disagree that it is a good idea? Am I just supposed to go away and not post?
If ideas can’t stand scrutiny, then they can’t be all that strong.
What?
Safran…uh…what?
Safran 67 said, “…the disrespectful hijacking that’s going on here simply reflects the worst in our business.
The worst in “our business?” Blogs only qualify as a “business” when the first ad appears, and only a sustainable business when the ads turn a profit.