Bully pulpit time. I’ve been blogging here for 8 years about the television industry doing dumb things. This one makes my blood boil, and it is personal.
This morning, Odyssey Marine Exploration is announcing that they have discovered the wreck of HMS Victory (not Nelson’s famous ship, which is still afloat as a museum, but the predecessor), which sank in the English Channel during the 18th-century with a reputed 4 tons of gold coins aboard worth an estimated $1 billion on today’s market. Cool, huh? Not really, and I will tell you why, but what is completely uncool is that Discovery is documenting and glorifying the whole practice in a series called Treasure Quest.
As a practice, treasure hunting is the equivalent of sanctioned poaching of endangered species. Historical shipwrecks are singular occurrences, they are not just a rare breed, there is only one of each. When treasure hunters get a hold of them and salvage them, they do not archaeologically excavate them. They recover the precious cargo within their profit margin and do the least scientific recording possible. They do not prioritize the very expensive and time consuming total recovery of information that archaeological ethics demand; they do not share the data with the public or scientific community through journals and museums; they do sell the recovered artifacts to the highest bidders and those artifacts disappear. It is exactly like hunting elephants for their tusks, or rhinos for their horns, or tigers for their pelts. Except that we can’t breed baby shipwrecks to try to save them.
You may be suprised to learn that the black market trade in antiquities only takes a back seat to the illegal arms and drugs markets, and it is not a distant back seat. UNESCO is fighting desperately to raise awareness and protect archaeological sites from treasure hunting. Treasure hunting on land is illegal in almost all states and nations around the world. Shipwrecks were not protected by many antiquity laws because the technology to reach them was not commonly accessible, but that is no longer the case.
So the archaeological community black-balls treasure hunters from their publications, but only dusty professors and scholars read those journals. The problem is that Discovery and National Geographic and other major media glorify the practice in their programming and publications, and newspapers love the sexy get rich story and play it like the New York Post this morning: “$hipwreck.”
Archaeology Magazine has come out strongly against this kind of programming, and I am sharing that insight with you in the television and media community. Yes, National Geographic used to publish articles about big game hunting a hundred years ago and changed their tune when times changed. It is time for the times to change again.
Seriously, treasure hunting sucks. It isn’t any cooler than digging up a mummy and grinding it into powder and selling it to gullible buyers as medicine. Because that is exactly what treasure hunters used to do until laws were passed to stop them. Now, who would watch a show of someone doing something like that? More importantly, who would produce and air one?
No related posts.
I think I disagree with you on this one. A lot of these shipwrecks would have never been found or identified if there wasn’t a profit to pay for them. Treasure hunters should be required to share more information with the public, but it’s understandable why they’d want to stay discrete about what they discover. If we have to choose between learning a little or having these ships stay hidden, I’d rather at least learn a little about them. So far Discover has ignored this controversy on the show, but I’m hoping they’ll address it. I can understand your position, but think that there is more then one way to look at this.
Davis, your assumption couldn’t be farther from the reality. Moreover, treasure hunting doesn’t usually make that much profit, because the process of finding wrecks is so time consuming and risky.
Odyssey is a new breed of treasure hunter, in that they are the first to try to sell public stock to finance their operations. More traditional treasure hunting backing comes by private selling of shares at the beginning of a season, under a buyer beware situation: If the hunter doesn’t hit, you lose, if they do hit, you get your commensurate share of the profit after payout. Usually, the investors are taken to the cleaners.
Outside the scholarly world, the issues of provenance and knowledge contained in the situational deposit of unremarkable or non-precious cargo are lost upon most.
Suffice to say, the wreck of the Atocha, the only spanish galleon of its type to ever be discovered has taught us nothing about the construction and design of this very important type of vessel, because the hull was largely destroyed in the effort to recover the sliver in the remains. The silver, when recovered, actually crashed the value of the market by changing the supply and demand balance. When buyers for the artifacts could not be found, Salvors Inc. actually melted the ingots down and made tiny dolphin pendants out of them, which can still be purchased today in Key West at the Mel Fischer Museum gift shop.
I’m not familiar with this show and have only seen headlines about the wreck, but I also have to say nay. Sorry.
What kind of archaeological data might be learned? It isn’t like it’s a new pueblo on the Colorado Plateau, where they can dig up the dump and learn about diet, trade patterns, whether they experienced war or famine. It’s a boat, so I’m sure there’s records of where it stopped and what was brought on-board, though I’m not sure what that would teach us anyway and I’m equally sure that all of their trash was tossed into the sea.
Not to mention that ocean currents and the actual act of sinking had to have disturbed some things. It was a boat and it sunk, that’s pretty much the whole deal and because the archaeological trade union would prefer that they profit from the find, rather than Mel Fisher (or his equivalent) sounds a lot more like people protecting their turf, rather than justifiable scientific reasoning.
again, archaeologists have no mechanism to profit from the sale of artifacts from finds. those materials are turned over to the public. the data collection, study, conservation and preservation is so expensive that there is no profit potential. in terms of resource management, you are correct, it is a turf war between preservation and exploitation mentalities.
shipwrecks are categorized as “catastrophic sites,” similar to pompeii, where the deposit is instantaneous, making them time capsules, tremendously valuable resources for the study of the types of lifeway behaviors you describe that were never included in the historical record.
a prime example is the medicine chest of the shipwreck vasa, the contents of which were never recorded a the time of lading, yet the careful archaeological recovery allowed the precise reconstruction of shipboard medical practices. mary rose has also yielded countless pieces of information about naval life and practices.
A sunken vessel is actually an intrusion on & into the marine ecology, no matter how long it is left to rot.
I disagree as well. Without concepts like treasure hunting, adventurism would be in decline. And the human race needs adventurism, just as much as it needs its environment. Treasure hunting also yields valuable information, as mentioned in the last comment.
Seems you just want to have a parade to rain on.
@David – Archeologists “profit” from book and documentary deals, speaking engagements, presitige, fellowships, teaching positions at “better” universities, etc., etc. Their “profit” might not be so base as selling some coins on eBay, but in their own circles and for what is expected for their profession, they do “profit”.
Not to mention that somebody has to pay for their trips and if it’s not the private sector or television, then that just leaves governments and universities, both of which would have to justify the expense.
As for the medicine cabinet, well now we know what was in somebody’s medicine cabinet and I’m sure that there wasn’t a big difference between practices on ships from the same ports and with the same level of funding. It’s sort of like my house, if you think about it; The actual structure was built by a copule of brothers and there are elements that were common at the time for people in this region and with their resources, but by no means is my house something worthy of university study or protected status. It’s just a house and I’m sure nine times out of ten, a ship is just a ship.
Huh? What do the ethics of treasure hunting on the Discovery channel have to do with “local media” or “the battle for the web”?
Maybe this post would be more appropriate on a different site.
cool, i just got served an large tile ad from pulte homes offering me a new place in the detroit area from “the $160’s”.
i love it when ads sniff the ip and deliver RELEVANT advertising.
although i would have preferred an offer to buy a little grass shack in kealakekua
(…with the hum humu nuku nuku apua’a swimming by!)
Adventurism?? I volunteer as a diver with an underwater archaeology non-profit; I get more of a sense of adventure from the recon for previously unknown wrecks, survey of new finds and diving them, potentially being the first set of eyes on a ship since she wrecked… all in support of professional archaeologists who can interpret what we find and guide us to help them gather information about the past.
If I find a gold doubloon lying on the sand in the middle of nowhere, with nothing around to put it into context– well, I’d probably guess it was a knock-off souvenir dropped from a passing tourist boat. If that same coin is discovered amongst many others, amid the remains of a iron-bound box on a shipwreck surrounded by cannon, might I know better the history of that piece? War treasure? Or if it’s found near human remains in the company of a pocket-knife or a belt-buckle, what might that tell us? Lucky coin? The story behind an artifact (and therefore what we can learn from it) is more tenuous and valuable than the simple monetary value of the material with which it’s made.
The volunteer training and experience I have received– the education– has led me to appreciate underwater archaeological sites for their value. Underwater sites generally are vastly better preserved than terrestrial sites, thereby making them much more valuable sources of information about the past (and therefore worthy of protection).
And let’s remember that archaeology is a destructive science. Excavating a site destroys the site. You only have one chance to gather and record the information about a site before it’s disturbed. If you don’t record everything you can, that data is lost forever. A “treasure hunter” may be retrieving some metal from the ocean floor, but he’s also destroying potentially unique information about our past that can never be recovered.
And no, a ship is *not* just a ship. Especially in the early days of sail, a ship was a microcosm of life in general of the times– a time-capsule. Large sailing vessel– especially warships– were the technological pinnacle of their time. Think space-shuttle here, not school bus. And each vessel was unique in her own way.
And don’t get me *started* about looting war-graves for souvenirs. That ghoulish practice turns my stomach.
Ditto db’s “Huh?” comment on why this topic is on LR.
This post is well written and raises interesting issues…which seem like they belong in some other blog entirely.
Lost Remote is for “local media and the battle for the web”, and its value lies is in its focus on those issues.
lostremote’s original focus was television and the web, and while we have transitioned to local media, we still deal heavily with broadcast and cable programming. if discovery or national geographic started airing shows that romanticized other destructive practices without editorial balance, i hope you would see the need to speak out.
apologies to those who feel I’ve hijacked the blog for a bit, because admittedly, I have, to editorialize on a topic that I am passionate about. clearly, it is a good thing to address, since most are completely unaware of the damage and don’t appreciate the problem presented.
after 8 or 9 years of pro-bono sharing of news, intelligence and insights, thanks for indulging me the platform.
fwiw, i kinda liked the change of pace.
could you toss in that :20 of porn that ran during the super bowl?
If you have watched the show, you will notice that they have two marine archielogists on board who document the wreck sites.
Yes, they are in the business to make money. But as someone else stated, these wrecks would never be found if it weren’t for Odessy’s technology…and that technology doesn’t come cheap.
So the trade off is…never find the wreck…or have Odessy find the wreck.
Who in the world would fund a straight archieologoical expedition of the size Odessy is doing ?
Answer: No one.
I think Odessy is doing decent job of balancing the business aspect and the historical preservation aspect of what they are doing.
My Dad was an archieologist…but ended up in the medical field due to the need to put food on the table and keep lights on in the house. If he could have made a living at it…who knows. Maybe this will inspire a whole new generation of archieologists….
My name is Frank Pandozzi. I am a treasure hunter and the Executive Producer, of Exploring Historys Treasures TV series. In response to your statement of “Now, who would watch a show of someone doing something like that? More importantly, who would produce and air one?” Well I do.
I produce a TV show about metal detecting, treasure hunting and we show our viewers how we dig in the dirt to retrieve our finds.
Also, I have a viewer database of thousands across the country, and it’s growing. My DVD’s of the series are very popular as well.
BTW, I feel sorry for many Archaeologists. I understand they are frustrated because they do not have the opportunity to play in the dirt like we amateurs can. Most of you are academia who are bored with life and feel cheated. So you take out your frustrations on those of us who do not have a degree to dig, and who enjoy digging up history.
If you’d like to come with me sometime on a treasure hunt, let me know. I have many places we can dig in.
Well Mr. Johnson, you’ve opened a well pool. Shame on you for your self-indulgent sense of entitlement and opinionated categorization of “for profit” salvors as grave robbers.
Were it not for the backbone and grit of these people, everyone might just as well be considered a pirate. Have you stopped your rant long enough to consider that demonizing persons that risk personal wealth and welfare might be adverse to your long term goal?
When I think of the seemingly endless warehouse rows of artifacts, boxed and cataloged that the public will never see it makes me sick. That’s truly hypocritical.
Of course there is always the definition of “artifact” being any item over 50 yrs of age. Perhaps you can devote the rest of your petty existence to the study of middle 20th century coinage or coke bottles. Think of where this will bring us.
So, keep polishing your rhetoric and tell everyone that will listen that excavating grave sites is good and picking up silver rounds is the work of the devil.
Dear LR:
Let’s keep this site focused on the business of TV, content and all the good stuff we all come here for. Whether I post frequently or not, I’m a LR zealot- this post is like a bizarre field trip I didn’t sign up for.
I totally disagree with the POV, but I can’t even come up with a response…that’s how out of place this is.
Sincerely,
A daily reader.
P.S. What exactly is “local” about a story on a national cable channel, about a shipwreck in the English Channel?
LR feels like it lost its focus awhile ago… It’s hardly about tv, hardly local, and becoming more and more arrogant in its writing. I still stop by fairly often but with posts like this, who knows.
Most of the people that should read this blog (IE tv mgmt) don’t… because of those reasons.
Who is David Johnson anyway and where is the story about the P-I or DTV I expected?
This site has really gone downhill. Corey….are you still into this? I really used to like getting my Lost Remote fix. I’m sorry its taken a downturn. Stale content….one or two updates a day….and now this?????
Please bring back the Lost Remote I knew and loved!!!!
I enjoyed the post (despite other comments urging you to stick to local media). I tend to agree with you on many of the points you raised but I would appreciate a response to the executive producer as he does make a compelling argument too.
@anonymous: i’m one of the original lost remote bloggers, been doing it since 2000. http://www.lostremote.com/david-johnson/
@bob turner and everyone else: lostremote switched to a local focus in august of last year, migrating from the battle for television and the web (www.lostremote.com/2008/08/10/lost-remotes-new-local-focus/). in october, we tried to change to a more link-oriented format (www.lostremote.com/2008/10/19/the-new-lost-remote-gets-linky/), which our users did not like and we went back, informing you all that we have demanding jobs and our frequency of posting was going to drop. many of us also have to juggle conflicts of interest, cory especially.
@Sudha and Frank: There is a major difference between sweeping a metal detector around and picking up a few coins on the public beach or somewhere, and driving a bulldozer into an indian mound and selling the artifacts to collectors. if one does that on land in the united states, federal law enforcement puts the treasure hunter in jail. but, propwashing a wreck in open international waters, recovering the coins and selling them is accepted practice among treasure hunters. most people are not aware that these practices are destructive and cause 99% of the site information to be lost forever.
@everyone: apologies again for the hijack, and back to the regularly scheduled blog. anyone who wants to follow the flame war between underwater archaeologists and treasure hunters, i refer you to the open subscription listserv SUB-ARCH at ASU.
I liked the hijacking. Seriously, I was getting tired of the same old local programming. I’d rather read a passionate and intelligent editorial on treasure hunting than another post on how super awesome neighborhood websites are.
And she’s not kidding.
Anonymous thinks the site would die if other Real hiccups became less frequent. Don’t just sit on your laurel all day, always have a change of underwear and remember your mother is always right because she learned it from having you and your siblings.
Hooray for Odyssey Marine! They have actually found something, and the general public will eventually be able to enjoy the results of their work. Marine archaeologists prefer to live in a dream world where they imagine doing some great academic research on ship wrecks that they have neither the time, money or knowledge to find. If it is left to them, those wrecks will lie at the bottom of the sear until eternity while they dream of doing research!
This post is on here because it is his website. That’s why. Also, treasure hunting does suck.
If it ain’t your gold I do suppose you are correct. Relative as your Uncle Bob.
As a person from academia I feel that we would be able to make this thing work with detectorists and archaeologist. Why not let people dig until they find something, then let the Arcs know about it when they are done? Publish guide lines on what is important and how to notify the arcs. If it’s a big deal that will net a lot of coins make the rule/law say that the findier gets the cash the arcs get to publish in a journal and take pictures as the dig progresses. If the arcs cannot attend then they are just out..Then the kindly diggers can be nice anyway and send them pictures taken at every 6 ” dug. We actually could work this out..Put both parties together with a group of farmers and debate it..The farmers would come up with the solution! We have let the “politically correct group, the green group etc. all gain power and it is to the detriment of all of us. I especially like the comment about the stuff found by arcs being put in warehouses never to be seen by the public who pays their salary! That’s the ultimate disgrace; no one ever sees 90 percent of what has been “cataloged” The arcs need to watch out if they take this too far as the idiot did when he took the kids arrowhead. Then there will be war, the diggers will intentionally destroy thing just to spite them ..Then who looses? We all do! The ships..Well as one of the previous contributors said, it would have laid at the bottom until eternity because the arcs don’t have the money to go there! More reason to do as the present shipwreck/treasure hunters are doing..take some of them with you! Let them record what is found and save what they can …and even give them what’s left over..you know the rotted beams, the rusty cannon ball, etc… seriously I love archaeologist and their work…but enough is enough you cannot run these treasure hunters to ground…give them a break and you will see almost all of them bend over backwards to help notify and qualify places you should be working on!
By the way your comment that “Treasure hunting on land is illegal in almost all states and nations around the world”. Is completly wrong!
Check out the facts,”This one makes my blood boil, and it is personal” …..Columists not being objective and printing hogwash…see my preious contribution and try to make things work.
It is if you are in sovereign waters and do not make arrangements with the nation nor do you obey property laws pertaining to said treasure.
Turn your kettle down, Dexter, blood is precious.
David Johnson: I’ve heard of…
American University
Scripps-Howard (In 1979 I participated the a regional version of their spelling bee)
NPR
National Press Club
Having used the internet since 1995 with my own account since 1997, I can honestly say I remember “Don’s Unofficial IBM Aptiva site” or Kris Trexler’s classic car and television websites as well as when I discovered Yahoo! but the the of this tome escapes me completely.
No, I really don’t know who you are. Sorry.
Did someone tell you that treasure hunting on land is illegal in most states or did youu just make that up? Better look up the laws. And I hope your hungry because your foot is in your mouth on this point. (just kidding, but each state has it’s own treasure hunting laws for land, and it IS completely legal in every state that I’ve checked..
You clearly have no idea what you are speaking about. You sound bitter and jealous that someone is making a profit from treasure hunting. Why should history be hidden under the ocean when today we have the technology to learn about it. I for one am fascinated by these findings. I also salute these men who are willing to risk their lives to find such treasures. I am a history buff and love the whole idea of treasure hunting. Whatever little information that is made public knowledge, is better than none at all.
You are an idiot and don't know what you are talking about!!!